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Unread 23rd July 2017   #1
KerryS
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Long term future for caravanning?

I may be being pessimistic but I wonder how long caravanning will go on for. With announcements like Volvo's saying no more pure petrol/diesel cars, France saying electric cars only from some future date and the general daft headlong rush to leccy vehicles which I cannot see being able to tow caravans, or pure leccy ones anyway. And what about electric motorhomes? Electric 44 t lorries? Bit unlikely. And then range? Currently, a Tesla car has longest range but still well short of many fossil fuelled cars.

And then, has the UK's energy system enough capacity to charge all these leccy vehicles? The UK's sustainable energy, i.e. Solar and wind, is increasing, yes, but new nuclear power is decades away. Only these sources are pollution free unlike charging leccy vehicles from fossil fuels is.

In all, probability, at my age, it may not impact my caravanning but I wonder what the post-2030+ caravanning world will be like.
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Unread 23rd July 2017   #2
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I guess I have been lucky, to just have a life at a good time for caravanning. I have had 50 years of it, a time when cars and caravans have undergone massive changes.

44 ton lorries using recharging is just not going to work at all on range reasons. The whole country cannot swap over to rechargeable because the national grid couldn't possibly supply the current needed for over night recharging. Aside from that, where is the generation of power going to come from? Wind - we would need to fill the entire UK with wind generators to even meet the present demands for power.

Between generation and use, there are large losses too, where as diesel and petrol use in a vehicle is much more efficient energy wise. Rechargeable, just moves the problems somewhere else, if fuel has to be burnt to produce the power.

Rather than waste all this money on renewable, the UK would have been far better investing that money in nuclear.
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Unread 23rd July 2017   #3
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from amother view is that now VW Merc . and other mnufactures are retuning the engines to reduse CO 2 and other exhust gas's lott of larger cars and 4X 4 lighter bay weights redused liter size engines plus more brake horse power per liter all resulting in lower co2 and other gas's

this may be the stop gap period untill electrial driven car are more pratical re distance / miles

Fiat ducato / vans are working on an electrical pack :-motor / batteries driving the rear wheels this is under delveopment the idea being the elec rical motors can be the sole power in London and other towns that concidering a diesel inner city tax (as in some Citys in the EU )

I cn not see much of a change regarding heavy transport HGV coaches trains etc
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Unread 24th July 2017   #4
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Another thing is that if every one switched to EV tomorrow the country would go bankrupt within a few years as a lot of income is derived from the sale of fossil fuels like petrol and diesel never mind the taxes associated with vehicles. How would the government be able to fund the NHS, benefits and state pensions? This means that they would have to tax EVs at the higher rate, increase tax on energy like electricity etc.
An EV is a step backward, not forward. It never worked in the past so why should it work now as even with our advanced technology, batteries still need to be charged. Maybe Toyota have it right with their new hydrogen powered vehicle?
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Unread 24th July 2017   #5
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Originally Posted by Surfer01 View Post
Another thing is that if every one switched to EV tomorrow the country would go bankrupt within a few years as a lot of income is derived from the sale of fossil fuels like petrol and diesel never mind the taxes associated with vehicles. How would the government be able to fund the NHS, benefits and state pensions? This means that they would have to tax EVs at the higher rate, increase tax on energy like electricity etc.
An EV is a step backward, not forward. It never worked in the past so why should it work now as even with our advanced technology, batteries still need to be charged. Maybe Toyota have it right with their new hydrogen powered vehicle?
The government is presently going through the very same thing, due to there being fewer smokers paying tax on cigarettes.

If they cannot get your money one way, they have to find alternative ways to tax you.
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Unread 24th July 2017   #6
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I also thought about the hydrogen thingy. Perhaps the way to go?
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Unread 26th July 2017   #7
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Hammer is raised on the caravanning coffin nail. UK to go same way as France.

Totally daft.
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Unread 26th July 2017   #8
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How are we going to support the 100s of thousands of people that are going to be come unemployed as EVs do not require serving so no more garages? Also no more tanker drivers to deliver to forecourts as forecourts will be closed with even more unemployment. With all these unemployed draining the state's coffers it will mean they have to raise taxes drastically to cover the losses. I wonder what excuse they will use.
Where is all this extra electric going to come from as we can barely cope at present plus is the electric going to be generated from fossils fuels or nuclear plants. I am also wondering how they are going to get the batteries from China to the EU? Will they be using electric aircraft? How will they dispose of the batteries after use?
Not a very well thought out objective.
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Unread 26th July 2017   #9
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And totally inconsistent with the railways where there will be next to no more electrification but trains will carry tens of tons of deadweight diesel around to use when the wires stop.
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Unread 27th July 2017   #10
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A company I worked for as G Mgr was a coach builder and we built and put into full service two Electric Hybrid passenger buses in Sydney.

In order to make these a success we had designed our own battery management system and also our own Electric drive motor Built in Germany for us. these tow issues were the most significant part of the overall design and subsequent service. City buses must achieve an acceleration factor to pass operational criteria. I managed on the ground testing and performance at a race track and had comparison tests against a MAN Diesel Bus same No of seats model 11.190 Our electric bus passed every std Diesel bus requirement and in fact was quicker on standing still to speed of 50 KMPH and overall faster at top speed.

However once you start driving such vehicles aggressively heavy acceleration you consume an excessive amount of battery energy. Similar to a petrol engine. Whilst we had regenitive braking any vehicle hammered by aggressive driving simply failed to cover the distance compared to a more professional standard of driving. Not the granny method however. Hills can have a significant impact of any EV. They need considerable more power to climb the hills which often is the equivalent of aggressive hard driving. Yes some payback when going down hill but ever enough to compensate for the heavy consumption to climb the hill.

The other big issue is batteries. They are bulky and heavy. Until world battery manufactures adopt the same design attitude that our cell phones have enjoyed Electric vehicles be it cars trucks or buses will be somewhat hindered by cost effective running and performance. Battery manufactures make money selling batteries so why would they be motivated to produce a very long lasting high performance battery?

Charging is not the issue once the country commits to a suitable infrastructure with high performance charging points then vehicles will travel anywhere like our petrol / diesels can now. Deep cycle Batteries can take a high and rapid charge between the bottom 20 % and top 20% of their capacity (Maybe 10% I cannot recall.) Also various battery manufactures designs have various duty cycles and that is a key factor in the overall life or length of service a battery will provide. In our bus design we used 42 x 6 volt batteries with a 400 duty cycle.

In my opinion there is no doubt Electric Vehicles are and will continue to grow and become part of our overall transport options. There are companies working on truck designs for E V but as to what use they are being establish I think you will find it will be in very specific functions ie Rubbish trucks, Milk, Mail, Parcel deliveries etc within a centre city boundry. Hi-way long haul we are a long way from that.
Can EV replace our cars for towing? In my opinion not yet. Will they well that will be subject to debate. How far I drive compared to another person what weight I carry and tow how hard I accelerate will all have quiet an impact on the end result.

Fuel cells. design was going on at the time we built the EV Bus but they were having considerable difficulty in getting a reliable service period. I well suspect by now that is much further advanced. Mercedes of Germany had in fact built and were testing a hydrogen fuel cell bus at the time. It will happen.
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